By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 19 minutes ago
More than 400 children taken from a polygamist sect's ranch two months ago began returning to the arms of their tearful parents Monday, hours after a judge bowed to a state Supreme Court ruling that the seizure was not justified.
"It's just great day," said Nancy Dockstader, whose chin quivered and eyes filled with tears as she embraced her 9-year-old daughter, Amy, outside a foster-care center in Gonzales, about 65 miles east of San Antonio. "We're so grateful."
Her daughter and four other children were among the roughly 430 children ordered released after two months in state custody, much of it spent in foster care centers. Because siblings were separated at facilities hundreds of miles apart, it will probably take several days for all the families to be reunited.
Judge Barbara Walther responded to a state Supreme Court ruling last week by signing an order that cleared the children to be released from foster care. Walther allowed parents to begin picking up their children Monday, ending one of the nation's largest child-custody cases.
Dockstader and her husband, James, were headed to Corpus Christi and to Amarillo to pick up their other children. "We'll get the rest of them," said Dockstader, who was clad in a teal prairie dress and clinging to Amy, who wore a matching dress.
Walther's order requires the parents to stay in Texas, to attend parenting classes and to allow the children to be examined as part of any abuse investigation.
But it does not put restrictions on the children's fathers, require that the parents renounce polygamy or force them to leave the Yearning For Zion Ranch run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Late Monday, elder Willie Jessop said the church won't allow underage girls to marry. Jessop said the new policy will forbid any girl to marry who is not of legal consent age in the state where she lives.
Jessop said the church has been widely misunderstood, but he said the church will not sanction marriages of underage girls and will counsel members against such unions. He insisted marriages within the church have always been consensual.
Child Protective Services removed all the children from the ranch after an April 3 raid prompted by calls to a domestic abuse hot line that purportedly came from a 16-year-old mother who was being abused by her middle-age husband. The calls are now being investigated as a hoax, but authorities contended all the children were at risk because church teachings pushed underage girls into marriage and sex.
The church has denied any children were abused, and members have said they are being persecuted for their religion, which believes polygamy brings glorification in heaven.
Marleigh Meisner, a spokeswoman for the child-protection agency, said authorities still have concerns about the children's safety, and the investigation into possible abuse would continue.
The Supreme Court on Thursday affirmed an appeals court ruling that reversed Walther's decision in April putting all children from the ranch into foster case.
The high court and the appeals court rejected the state's argument that all the children were in immediate danger from what it said was sexual abuse of teenage girls at the ranch.
The Third Court of Appeals ruled that the state failed to show that any more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and had offered no evidence of sexual or physical abuse against the other children.
Half the children sent to foster care were no older than 5.
All the children, including any underage mothers, will be allowed to go back to their parents, though it's possible some children's attorneys or child-protection officials could pursue further action in individual cases.
It's not clear how many might return to the ranch right away. Many of the parents have purchased or rented homes in Amarillo, San Antonio and other places around the state.
Rod Parker, a spokesman for the FLDS church, said some of the attorneys have advised parents to stay away from the ranch for now, but most families want to return so the children can continue the education they were getting at the sect's schoolhouse before the raid.
Walther's order does not end a separate criminal investigation. Texas authorities last week collected DNA from jailed FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs as part of investigation into underage sex with girls, ages 12 to 15. He has been convicted in Utah as an accomplice to rape and is jail in Arizona awaiting trial on separate charges.
The FLDS is a breakaway sect of the Mormon church, which renounced polygamy more than a century ago.
As Heard on The Stephanie Miller Show
Showing posts with label polygamy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label polygamy. Show all posts
Monday, June 02, 2008
Friday, April 18, 2008
Texas polygamist sect is accused of "indoctrinating" girls
By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 23 minutes ago
Girls in the West Texas polygamist sect enter into underage marriages without resistance because they are ruthlessly indoctrinated from birth to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation, experts for the state testified Friday at a custody hearing for 416 youngsters.
The renegade Mormon sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and an authority on children in cults.
But under questioning from defense lawyers who lined up in the courtroom aisles to have a turn at each witness, the state's experts acknowledged that the sect mothers were loving parents and that there were no signs of abuse among younger girls and any of the boys.
The testimony came on Day 2 of an extraordinary mass hearing over an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes.
The children were seized earlier this month in a raid on the sect's desert compound — a ranch built around a brilliant white limestone temple — because of evidence of physical and sexual abuse, including the forcing of underage girls into marriage and childbearing.
Texas District Judge Barbara Walther boiled it down this way: "The issue before the court is: Can I give them back?"
Although the attorneys for the children and the parents have not yet presented their cases, they seemed to be trying to show in cross-examination that their children were fine and that the state was trying to tear families apart on the mere possibility that the girls might be abused when they reach puberty several years from now.
Only a few of the children are teenage girls. Roughly a third are younger than 4 and more than two dozen are teenage boys. But about 20 women or more gave birth when they were minors, some as young as 13, authorities say.
The judge controlled the hundreds of lawyers with a steelier hand Friday than she did the day before.
Under cross-examination, state child-welfare investigator Angie Voss conceded there have been no allegations of abuse against babies, prepubescent girls or any boys.
But her agency, Child Protective Services, contends that the teachings of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints — to marry shortly after puberty, have as many children as possible, and obey their fathers or their prophet, imprisoned leader Warren Jeffs — amount to abuse.
"This is a population of women who appear to have a problem making a decision on their own," Voss said.
Perry testified that the girls he interviewed said they freely chose to marry young. But he said those choices were based on lessons drilled into them from birth.
And what, prey tell, about the choices we who are NOT in that compound make. Are we not the product of ideas and precepts that have been drilled into US at birth.
Perry acknowledged that many of the adults at the ranch are loving parents and that the boys seemed emotionally healthy when he played with them. When asked whether the belief system really endangered the older boys or young children, Perry said, "I have lost sleep over that question."
Under questioning, Perry also conceded the children would suffer if placed in traditional foster care.
"If these children are kept in the custody of the state, there would have to be exceptional and innovative programmatic elements for these children and their families," he said. "The traditional foster care system would be destructive for these children."
At that, dozens of FLDS parents applauded.
Eugene Volokh, a UCLA law professor, said courts have generally held that a parent's belief system cannot, in itself, justify a child's removal. He said, for example, that a parent might teach his child that smoking marijuana is acceptable, but only when he helps the child buy pot does he cross the line.
"The general view of the legal system is until there is an imminent risk of harm or actual harm, you can't" take the children, Volokh said.
The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. Investigators have yet to identify her among the children seized.
Jeffs is in prison for being an accomplice to rape. He was convicted in Utah last year of forcing a 14-year-old into marrying an older man.
___
So IF placing all these kids in some kind of foster home would be detrimental to the welfare of the kids, and IF those who married did so willingly, and IF the kids seemed happy where there were, and IF these people more-or-less stayed to themselves, what possible reason would The Powers That Be have in continuing this nonsense.
Because those who are outside the of acceptbale society must know that you outside status will not be tolerated, and you will be compelled to conform, or you will suffer. That's why.
God......
I was kinda wondering when we'd get to THIS
part.....
Girls in the West Texas polygamist sect enter into underage marriages without resistance because they are ruthlessly indoctrinated from birth to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation, experts for the state testified Friday at a custody hearing for 416 youngsters.
Funny.....that's what I was tought as a Southern
Baptist....without the sex part, of course...
The renegade Mormon sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian," said Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist and an authority on children in cults.
A-HA!!!!! The OTHER "C" word! Note, if you do not
agree with something, and you are orgianized, you are labeled a cult.
Other examples: the Muslim faith, Catholicism, Scientology, the Democratic
party.......
But under questioning from defense lawyers who lined up in the courtroom aisles to have a turn at each witness, the state's experts acknowledged that the sect mothers were loving parents and that there were no signs of abuse among younger girls and any of the boys.
In other words, they were just normal kids who got
married earlier than others. This must NOT stand!
The testimony came on Day 2 of an extraordinary mass hearing over an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes.
The children were seized earlier this month in a raid on the sect's desert compound — a ranch built around a brilliant white limestone temple — because of evidence of physical and sexual abuse, including the forcing of underage girls into marriage and childbearing.
Texas District Judge Barbara Walther boiled it down this way: "The issue before the court is: Can I give them back?"
Answer........uh.....yeah.....
Although the attorneys for the children and the parents have not yet presented their cases, they seemed to be trying to show in cross-examination that their children were fine and that the state was trying to tear families apart on the mere possibility that the girls might be abused when they reach puberty several years from now.
Only a few of the children are teenage girls. Roughly a third are younger than 4 and more than two dozen are teenage boys. But about 20 women or more gave birth when they were minors, some as young as 13, authorities say.
The judge controlled the hundreds of lawyers with a steelier hand Friday than she did the day before.
Under cross-examination, state child-welfare investigator Angie Voss conceded there have been no allegations of abuse against babies, prepubescent girls or any boys.
But her agency, Child Protective Services, contends that the teachings of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints — to marry shortly after puberty, have as many children as possible, and obey their fathers or their prophet, imprisoned leader Warren Jeffs — amount to abuse.
"This is a population of women who appear to have a problem making a decision on their own," Voss said.
In response, the FLDS women, dressed in long, pioneer dresses with their hair swept up in braids, groaned in chorus with their dark-suited attorneys.As opposed, one would think, to the rest of society, where both men and women
seem to have that same problem...
Perry testified that the girls he interviewed said they freely chose to marry young. But he said those choices were based on lessons drilled into them from birth.
And what, prey tell, about the choices we who are NOT in that compound make. Are we not the product of ideas and precepts that have been drilled into US at birth.
And what if you reject those precepts....for instance"Obedience is a very important element of their belief system," he said. "Compliance is being godly, it's part of their honoring God."
that the only way to make money is to get a decent job and pray you don;t go
broke when you die....or you must only fall in love with ONE person of the
OPPOSITE sex, no younger or older than 5 years of you, or that sex should only
be for making babies......and not enjoyable either, or every move the USA makes
is good....eve if it isn't? If you reject those precepts, aren't you
tempting fact......or eternal damnnation???
Perry acknowledged that many of the adults at the ranch are loving parents and that the boys seemed emotionally healthy when he played with them. When asked whether the belief system really endangered the older boys or young children, Perry said, "I have lost sleep over that question."
Under questioning, Perry also conceded the children would suffer if placed in traditional foster care.
"If these children are kept in the custody of the state, there would have to be exceptional and innovative programmatic elements for these children and their families," he said. "The traditional foster care system would be destructive for these children."
At that, dozens of FLDS parents applauded.
Eugene Volokh, a UCLA law professor, said courts have generally held that a parent's belief system cannot, in itself, justify a child's removal. He said, for example, that a parent might teach his child that smoking marijuana is acceptable, but only when he helps the child buy pot does he cross the line.
"The general view of the legal system is until there is an imminent risk of harm or actual harm, you can't" take the children, Volokh said.
The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. Investigators have yet to identify her among the children seized.
In fact, they have not even FOUND the alleged
16-year old girl, who is either lazing very comfortably with her 50-year-old
Daddykins on some beach in Bermuda....or sitting very quietly in the mind of the
agent who may have dreamed her up.....
And they had better find/create her, otherwise
this may blow up in thier faces if the call that started this was a hoax.
But this IS Tex-ass boys and girls, where...for instance...if they want to bust
you on drug charges, they can....even if they have to plant the drugs
themselves.
Jeffs is in prison for being an accomplice to rape. He was convicted in Utah last year of forcing a 14-year-old into marrying an older man.
___
So IF placing all these kids in some kind of foster home would be detrimental to the welfare of the kids, and IF those who married did so willingly, and IF the kids seemed happy where there were, and IF these people more-or-less stayed to themselves, what possible reason would The Powers That Be have in continuing this nonsense.
Because those who are outside the of acceptbale society must know that you outside status will not be tolerated, and you will be compelled to conform, or you will suffer. That's why.
God......
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